Mr. DIMOND. Yes, sir. Now, Mr. Chairman, so far as I can recall, we have no further witnesses here at this time. As I understand, my full statement is already in the record.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; that is a part of the record.

Mr. DIMOND. And while I wish to address the committee to some considerable extent upon the matters contained in that statement, I presume that ought to be done in executive session and not in open hearings.

The CHAIRMAN. I think it would be a repetition of what you have already put in, unless you desire to do so.

Mr. DIMOND. NO; I do not see any point to be gained by doing it. The CHAIRMAN. Unless there are particular points you want to emphasize.

Mr. DIMOND. In view of some of the statements that have been made and the questions that have been asked of witnesses by members of the committee, I wish to say, just as strongly and as positively as I can, that my purpose in introducing this bill and now presenting it to the committee is not for the effect it may have otherwise upon any negotiations that are taking place between any governments, but in order that the bill may be passed.

As I view it, to use the language that was used by Mr. Gilbert in testifying, it is necessary that we declare, in positive terms by an act of Congress, that the salmon found in the waters of Alaska are our salmon. It is necessary to do that for many reasons. In the first place, because it is the only effective way in which we can make known to the world precisely what our claim is.

As I pointed out in the statement I have heretofore made, one of the things with which we were confronted in the Bering Sea arbitration was the fact that Congress had expressly declined to make such declaration with respect to the seals; therefore, when we got into arbitration over the subject, the one thing that was used against us in that arbitration was the refusal of Congress to declare that they had a special right to maintain and protect the seal herds in all of the waters adjacent to the coasts of Alaska. So, as far as my position is concerned, in presenting this bill and presenting the testimony here to the committee, it is to ask for a favorable report upon it and for its ultimate passage, and nothing else.

I thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other witnesses you want to put on? I notice Mr. Emerson's name on the list.

Mr. DIMOND. Oh, yes; I want to get Mr. Emerson and Mr. Timson, too, if he is here.

The CHAIRMAN. They do not appear to be here, so suppose we recess then until 3 o clock.

Mr. DIMOND. May I put in the record also, Mr. Chairman, a tabulated statement which is furnished me by Mr. Bower, of the catch of salmon in Bristol Bay over a period of years?

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, it is so ordered.

(The statements above referred to are as follows:)

The committee reconvened pursuant to the

Hon. Schuyler O. Bland (chairman) presiding.

taking of the recess,

Mr. DIMOND. Mr. Chairman, may I ask Mr. Carlson a few more questions?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

FURTHER STATEMENT OF C. CHESTER CARLSON

Mr. DIMOND. Mr. Carlson, supplementing the testimony which you gave yesterday, will you please state whether or not, in your judgment, there are other places in Alaska besides Bristol Bay in which the Japanese or other foreign nationals can operate off-shore fisheries, and thus seriously deplete or exhaust the salmon fisheries of Alaska?

Mr. CARLSON. With your permission, Mr. Chairman, I think I will use this map and possibly it would be better.

The CHAIRMAN. And in using it, if you can, designate it by places, so that someone reading the record can take a map and find out what you are pointing to.

Mr. CARLSON. As I stated before, I have fished over the most of this territory during the last 18 years. Now, since the Japanese have already started their exploitation of our fisheries, I want to point out how easy the rest of the coastline of the Territory is open to their invasion. They started in here in Bristol Bay.

The CHAIRMAN. That is near the mouth of what river?

Mr. CARLSON. They started here in Bristol Bay at the entrance of the Kvichak, Nushagak, Egegik, and Ugashik Rivers. They started there. We know that; that is established

All they have to do is to put their nets anywhere around in here, or Kodiak, on either side of it

Mr. DIMOND. Is that Kodiak Island?

Mr. CARLSON. That is Kodiak Island, right here [indicating]; and, in that way, it is a simple matter the distance here is considerable; probably 30 or 40 miles, and all they need to do is to lay offshore at the present time, beyond this 3-mile stretch, and to throw 3 miles of net in the way of the salmon, which almost always show up, because when they travel they jump-and catch all of the salmon in that area. After that is taken care of, they can come over here to Prince William Sound. There are just two entrances; the one comes in at Cape Clear, and another one is the Hinchinbrook entrance. Now, there is considerable red salmon that runs into the different creeks there, along with the pinks and the chums, and it is comparatively easy for them to station a ship on either side here [indicating].

After that, we have the Copper River Delta, which I believe it is an undisputed fact has the best grade of red salmon that are caught in the Territory and put up. In our fishing previously, we used to fish inside of the Sand Islands; but, with some advance, now we go up over the bars daily and fish from 5 to 20 miles offshore at the present time, with gill nets. Well, that is also accessible. Any of these places are vulnerable to the Japanese, should they want to outfit their ships and put them at those different locations.

Then you have Yakutat, which is also a red-salmon stream. There are different streams that empty into Yakutat Bay. They could do likewise there.

Then you drop down to Cape Spencer at southeastern Alaska, and it is a simple process to carry on the same methods as they have done the last season in Bristol Bay.

Then there is another entrance, Christian Sound, and another at Cape Chacon.

After they distribute their offshore canneries along there, which does not require a very visionary imagination to see that it is possible, they

would then be in a position to catch the majority of the fish that are come into those waters. And that is important to consider, because we know they have only started, that this is a kind of an initial step at the present time, but it could be carried out further than it was last year by the Japanese.

That is all I have.

Mr. DIMOND. Thank you, Mr. Carlson.

Now, Mr. Chairman, neither Mr. Emerson nor Mr. Timson is here in the room, and I ask permission for them to file written statements on the matters concerning which I desired them to testify.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, that may be done.
Mr. DIMOND. The statements will not be at all extensive.
The CHAIRMAN. That is agreeable.

Mr. DIMOND. In view of the fact, Mr. Chairman, that the State Department or the officials of the State Department have not yet made any declaration upon the subject matter of this bill, while I have no further testimony to present at this time, I request that the hearings be not definitely and finally closed; because later I hope we can get officials of the State Department to testify, and perhaps to bring in other witnesses.

The CHAIRMAN. You have no witnesses from away from here whom you contemplate bringing on later?

Mr. DIMOND. No, sir; there is none here now.

The CHAIRMAN. I ask, because I have no idea just what the committee's action will be, or when they will make their report.

The hearings, then, will be concluded for the present, with the right of the Chair, upon request, to reopen them for any further witnesses. Is there anything else?

Mr. DIMOND. I have nothing else, Mr. Chairman. I wish to express the profound sense of obligation that we all feel toward you. for giving us this splendid, fine, fair, and complete hearing upon this very important subject.

The CHAIRMAN. We are very glad to do it. The hearings, then, will be closed, with the right of the Chair to reopen them if, as and when desired.

Mr. DIMOND. There is one thing I overlooked. I received some figures today from the Treasurer of Alaska, concerning the Territorial revenues and if, upon tabulating them, it is found advisable, in order to present the question of revenue clearly to the committee, I ask leave to put that tabulation in the record also, either as a part of my own remarks, or as a part of Senator Walker's testimony, since he testified upon that subject.

The CHAIRMAN. That is entirely agreeable. Any additional written matter may be filed and, without objection, it will be agreed that any written statements, which the Chair consents may go in, may be filed later.

Mr. DIMOND. Thank you, sir.

(The following statements were submitted after the adjournment of the hearings:)

STATEMENT OF RALPH EMERSON, LEGISLATIVE REPRESENTATIVE, MARITIME UNIONS, COMMITTEE FOR INDUSTRIAL ORGANIZATION; ALSO REPRESENTING THE MARINE COOKS AND STEWARDS UNION OF THE PACIFIC, MARINE FIREMEN, OILERS AND WATERTENDERS OF THE PACIFIC AND THE INLAND BOATMEN'S UNION OF THE PACIFIC

Mr. EMERSON. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee: On behalf of the thousands of maritime workers who comprise the membership of the unions which I represent, we wish to go on record as being in full accord with and in support of the bill H. R. 8344. Also as representing those groups of men engaged in the fishing industry on the east coast and who are affiliated with our maritime unions in the Committee for Industrial Organization, we wish to give our full support to this measure which we feel if enacted into law will protect our union brothers who are members of maritime unions on the west coast and in Alaska and who we feel are deserving of the protection that will be afforded by this measure, as American workers. We also wish to support this measure in order to protect those workers affiliated with the Committee for Industrial Organization and who are engaged in the canning and packing processes in the fishing industry on the west coast.

We are of the unanimous opinion that a firm stand should be taken at this time by all our Government agencies concerned to counteract and put a stop to the practices and tactics being employed by the Japanese Government in encouraging their nationals to encroach upon the salmon-fishing industry of Alaska. We know from past bitter experience in other fields of industry, that we cannot hope to compete successfully from labor's point of view with a nation such as Japan and when the policy of the industrialists of that nation is to pay to their laborers "coolie wages"; when added to this is the fact that it is our own salmon that the Japanese are taking and thus impairing the chances for our own American workers in the fishing industry to make a living, we feel that such a situation as has been created should be immediately corrected.

As the wheels of justice in situations of this kind move rather slowly when applied through our various Government executive departments concerned, we therefore are of the opinion that it is absolutely necessary that this proposed legislation be enacted into law so that those same Government departments will be able to proceed more speedily in remedying this existing evil. We therefore urge that this committee report this bill out favorably as soon as possible.

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM TIMSON, PRESIDENT, ALASKA PACKERS' ASSOCIATION, SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF.

Mr. TIMSON. My name is William Timson. I am president of the Alaska Packers' Association, the office of which is at 111 California Street, San Francisco, Calif. The Alaska Packers' Association is the oldest salmon-canning company now operating in Alaska. I recently retired from the presidency of the Association of Pacific Fisheries, a trade association to which practically all the Bristol Bay salmon canners belong, after having served in that capacity for 3 years.